Welcome to episode #79 of The PPC Show, where we interview the best and brightest in paid marketing. This week we're joined by Vernon Johnson, Social Account Manager at 3Q Digital.
Search is all about intent-based people searching for specific products, and social is a little bit more about that discovery side, Pinterest has this great mix of both. People on Pinterest are here to discover, they're here to buy, they're here to purchase, they're here to change somethings, they're here to plan.
Did you know 61% of Pinners have discovered a new brand or product on the platform, and 1 out of 2 users have made a purchase after seeing an advertisement on Pinterest?
Stay tuned to learn as Vernon talks about:
- Where to start when you're first getting started
- Creative Best Practices
- Running Mobile App Install campaigns
- How to find Long-Tail Keywords for Pinterest or Search
- Using One-Tap to Trick the Pinterest Algorithm
Listen to the Episode
Vernon started at 3Q in August of 2016 with a background in organic and paid social for higher education and direct response advertising. Originally from Madison, WI, he moved to Chicago for school, met his now-wife, Ashley, and settled in. When he’s not optimizing campaigns he’s cycling, brewing craft coffee, or hanging out with his wife and son, Emerson.
Connect with him on Twitter and Pinterest.
Transcript and Show Notes
JD Prater: Vernon, welcome to the PPC Show.
Vernon Johnson: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, JD. It's an honor to be here, man.
JD Prater: It's gonna be a really fun topic. Love me some Pinterest ads.
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. It's interesting, because Pinterest has kinda been a low layer for a while, and not a lot of people talking about it. But recently it's starting to surface, and it's pretty fun.
JD Prater: Yeah. Well, before we jump into some really awesome ways to get started, some best practices, and even some hacks that you have for us, give us a quick intro of who you are and where you're working.
Vernon Johnson: Sure, yeah, I would love to. So I started my career in social kind of by accident. I was in school, I was going to school looking for a job, and ended up finding a place in their online department, and was actually just working in the call center, and realized that this online school didn't have a social presence. So I jumped in right away, and found out I love it. I love learning, just kind of dove in head first, and kinda got lost and ended up getting hired full-time there. Worked in organic for a little while at some higher ed institutions, and really started to realize that I love the paid aspect of paid, where you're kinda mixing the creativity with the science and the data.
And so that's how I ended up getting into the social media and paid social specifically there for the last five years and just loved it. I'm currently an account manager at 3Q Digital, specializing in social and so that's where I've been. Yeah.
JD Prater: Yeah. And for all those listening, 3Q got their Independence back from Harte Hanks. So yeah, congratulations. I know that's a big announcement for you guys.
Vernon Johnson: Thanks man. Yeah, we just got Tee Shirts made that said. "Proudly Independent", so loving it. Loving it.
JD Prater: Nice. Well, cool. So, let's jump into it man. I know you've been running some Pinterest ads. We've been kinda talking about it and I would agree, it's one of those channels and ad networks that really people aren't talking a lot about. And whenever I was running them in my agency, were all ... Like I saw, pretty good success. And so, for those listening, where do you think is a good place to get started?
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. That's a great question. I think that's the one question people always come to Pinterest with and I think the main reason they come to Pinterest with that question is because it is different. And so, one of the cool things that makes Pinterest so different from other channels is you're mixing this idea of intent and discovery. So whereas, search is all about intent based people searching for men’s shoes specifically, and social is a little bit more about that discovery side, Pinterest has this great mix of both. So, it's exciting but it can also be really confusing when you come to start with Pinterest because of that. And the platform is so different from a lot of the other channels.
So, one of the places that I really like to start is, if you already have an organic presence, that can be a really great starting place for running advertising. In fact, if you go into your organic analytics, especially if you haven't converted your profile over to business head count already, definitely would do that, but then you have the access to this analytics. And you'll be able to see your top organic pins from your website, which is great. So, this is not only the pins that you've specifically put on your boards but also anyone pinning anything from your website. So, if you haven't pinned a whole bunch of stuff to your boards, you'll be able to see that. So that's a great place to start. It's gonna show you your top pins, what people are engaging with the most. What's really sticking out.
And then I would really start to build of your creative there. Pinterest fundamentally at the end of the day, is a creative platform. Your campaigns are gonna make or break on the creative specifically. So, you wanna make sure your stuck in there strong. So that's really where I would start, is looking at organic. If you haven't run a lot of organic, you can start with some things that have worked well on Facebook. That Facebook as well can be very visual. And so from that standpoint, you can start roughly with what creative has worked on Facebook.
I say that tentatively because a lot of times the Facebook creative won't always work specifically on Pinterest. Pinterest is more vertical rather than horizontal for instance. So you wanna be careful because Pinterest is really about showing people how to do something. So people are coming to Pinterest to learn. 98% of people who've come to Pinterest have tried something they've found on Pinterest. So, they're coming to discover, they're coming to be taught, they're coming to learn. So whereas Facebook is more like, "Buy these shoes now," Pinterest might be, here's how to lace up your shoes. See, I feel like that's a stupid example, came to my head first. But that's really what you wanna [crosstalk 00:04:18].
JD Prater: Or like these shoes are super hot right now. The trends and men's styles.
Vernon Johnson: Yeah, exactly. So, you change that a little bit but you might be able to use similar photography or similar images on Pinterest. So that's where I would start. And definitely start with, if you're in eCom start with your best products first, if you have atrial kit or a top performing specific skew, you can start there really easily and use some of those images.
JD Prater: Yeah, so for types of verticals. So, I've heard a lot of people wanna rag or call out Pinterest like, "It's not gonna work." Are there certain verticals that you know like, "Hey, man, because you're in this vertical, you need to be on Pinterest."
Vernon Johnson: Yeah, that's a good question. I think Pinterest is really expanding so a lot more verticals are working. Obviously, eCom and visual clients are gonna work the best. When you watch Pinterest webinars, they're gonna show a lot of the really visually pleasing brand right away, because obviously those cater to the platform really well. But I think one of the spots that they haven't done really well and they're starting to really move towards them performing better is the DR brands, the specific brands that are selling specific products. So, not only eCom but the technology sites, SaaS sites, anything related to that. So, where you're trying to drive action, I think we're gonna see a lot of success, continued success in Pinterest.
JD Prater: Yeah. And they're really building up this platform. One thing that you mentions was Pinterest analytics, and it's something vastly under utilized, vastly people aren't writing about it but there are some serious insights. Like, when you talk about creating personas, you talk knowing who your audience is man, that can unleash some serious insights of who your customer is what they're looking for. I've found that to be a really powerful tool.
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. There's a wealth of knowledge there, even if you aren't running ads, though you should be. There's a ton of wealth of knowledge there for organic pins yeah. It's a great resource if you haven't explored it yet.
JD Prater: Yeah. And so, kinda moving through. So maybe we have the right vertical, maybe we got some Pinterest analytics, so now we're starting to see some organic pins and as you kinda mentioned, really starting to boost, just even a couple of those, just to kinda see what happens. You mentioned some of this creative aspect, where it is different than Facebook. Its actually different than any other platform because of that very vertical, very long, very skinny, type of image. Have you found stuff that works within that long image of something to kinda think through? Because you don't necessarily have like for example, those text requirement like Facebook has.
Vernon Johnson: No, they don't. In fact, we really encourage using texts on images. So that's one of the things that I'd call out right away, is using text on your images, make it a really clear "Call to action". So they used to actually unapproved ads if they had like CTA looking buttons, so "Call to action" ... Like, if you put on the image itself something that looked like a button, they wouldn't approve that ad but that has since gone away in recent months.
So you can now put that "Shop now" or "Buy now" button on there, which is really interesting. So people, when they click that the pin expands or if you one-tap on, go straight ... So, that's really interesting. So, I think using CTAs is something that you should really explore testing. I think it can be something that's really powerful, especially on this platform, because people are here to discover, they're here to buy, they're here to purchase, they're here to change somethings, they're here to plan. So, like those "Call to actions" I think are gonna be really, really important.
As well as thinking about creative, you wanna make sure your creative really pops. We think about this a lot of times on Facebook in my world, making sure that it stands out, it's thumb stopping. But I think on Pinterest I think it's even more so. You want that creative to really stand out. And that can be difficult because Pinterest is such a visual platform, everyone's trying to do that. So, one of the things that I keep in mind is, using compelling colors, making sure they're bight and vibrant but they also go with your brand. You don't want it to be so juxtaposed to the brand so when somebody's scrolling through, they see it, it's eye catching, it's visually pleasing, but it also fits with your brands colors overall.
And then you also wanna be thinking mobile first. With all of this stuff, you really wanna be thinking somebody's gonna be scrolling through on their phone, they're gonna have the two pin layout, so it's just side by side, and it's gonna be fairly small. Pinterest is said, if you're designing at a 600 by 900 or even a 600 by 1260, which is like the max size before it gets cut off, they reCommend a 20 point font. Obviously, that changes based on how you're designing and what DPI. But relatively speaking, I think what they're saying is that you should really use a big font, so when you're going on mobile you can clearly see the call outs.
And then, in sizes I mentioned doing, testing it, there's been some things on sizing I would definitely test it in your industry. So, square images, 600 by 600 pixels, I've seen work well. 600 by 900 is kinda the next size and then the biggest size that you can run in the feed without getting cut off is that 600 by 1260. So definitely do some testing. The vertical format really lends itself to those "How to's". "Here's three ways to improve the way you do such and such," or, "Here's three ways to clean up."
So those type of things can work really well. And one of the things I'd really think about in terms of your creative is looking at, "How can I educate the customer? How can I inform them of something new?" Facebook doesn't really give us this opportunity and Twitter and some of the other platforms as much as Pinterest does. And it really gives you this opportunity to give, give, give, before you actually ask and receive.
JD Prater: Yeah, especially when you think about ... You've mentioned it several times and I don't think ... We could definitely break this dow with like the discovery aspect of it, is really thinking through, like people are coming here because they're trying to discover a new idea, find a new idea or they're trying to find ways to accomplish something. And I think it's a very different type of intent.
I'll even give you personal examples. And then, even for myself, I like to go in for like DIY, so my wife and I might be wanting to do something with our kitchen or we might wanna remodel. And you're just going to get ideas like, what is possible? Or maybe I want a DIYs standing desk. I don't wanna necessarily buy one but hey, maybe I can create one. So I have pins like that or ... It's always nice to see those latest fashion trends for men, even though I don't really follow them, but it's always nice to see. So I follow those kind of things and I just kind of scroll through it. So maybe when I am ready to buy, I'm at least informed enough to feel like I can make, what we would call a "compulsive buy" because I've already been educated.
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. Absolutely. And that actually leads us onto something that I think is so incredible about the Pinterest platform, is that long tail so, people are coming to plan. My wife and I were planning our little one-year-old daughter's birthday, completely on Pinterest, it was totally there. And we were planning and then we even purchased somethings. But we've been planning this, I shouldn't say we, my wife has been planning this for the last year, and I've been kinda helping. But those pins have stayed on the board for a long time.
So the way I think about Pinterest is this long tail. All of the pins that we're gonna run as ads have to live organically first, and one of the cool things is that unlike Facebook or Twitter or a lot of the other platforms where the half life of an ad minimizes, so once you scroll by that Facebook ad it's very difficult to go back to it, if not impossible. Whereas Pinterest it lives on so, the half life increases. And this is one of the coolest things about the platform is, you can run an ad and you can get a whole lot of impressions and saves and then that ad will continue to live on and continue to expound on it organically, which is great.
So, one of the things you have to think about when you're coming to the platform, especially in eCom, is people may be saving those pins with the intent to purchase six months, nine months down the road. And so you really wanna be thinking about that long tail. Make sure that the creative, that it would be just as relevant this year as it is next year.
So, maybe it's not goals for 2018 resolutions it's maybe, New Year's resolutions, is the tagline in some of those and even in eCom being careful about that text because those pins will live on for a long time, and you want people to save those and come back to them. You want them to be continually inspired down the road. And that's also one thing I would think about in terms of attribution, is that when you're saying, "Does Pinterest work against Facebook?" Maybe not looking specifically at the conversions but your engagement, your saves, your ... Looking at the things that people are engaging and looking at the pins specifically and pinning it to the boards. Because those things are gonna live on for a lot longer than just running your Facebook or Twitter ad.
JD Prater: Yeah. And they give you much different engagement, like close ups. So, you can be, "How many people?" Your pin, it's stopped the scroll, someone clicked on it, and what that means is like, it blew up in the feed. That's a close up. Those people are dissecting that image and determining, "What should I do? Should I save this to a board? Do I wanna click through?" And just even tracking that conversion rate, I always fount to be really beneficial. But on thing that you were saying with organic, that's also free. That's one thing I like. So you pay for the clicks right?
Vernon Johnson: Yup.
JD Prater: But any of that organic stuff, that's free. That's just added bonus. Like, thank you so much.
Vernon Johnson: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it lives on for a long time. I call it the long tail. Yeah, it's great. It's one of the best features of Pinterest. [crosstalk 00:13:23].
JD Prater: Very cool. And so, one of the other things I wanted you to kinda break down for us, is they have some different types of campaign objectives, but also different ways that we can target. And so, break down some of the different types of objectives because they really have expanded what they're offering to advertisers and then maybe just even some ways that you kinda think through how to target.
Vernon Johnson: Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, so breaking down the campaign objectives is much slimmer than some of the other platforms, which is great. They have a total of five. So, you have a traffic campaign, an awareness campaign, you have an engagement campaign for engagement on pins, a mobile app installed campaign, and a video campaign.
So, I'm guess that the primary audience especially if you're talking about eCommerce or direct response is gonna be in that traffic campaign area. And so that's probably where you'll the bulk of the campaigns are gonna be. Awareness, really will get great impression and low CPMs. Engagement can also be really great if you're looking just to get those saves, get those close ups, the engagement rate on some of those pins. Maybe you're looking to boost some organic content, that would be a great place to put it. And the mobile app install, which I'd love to get into a little bit and then also video. Video's fairly new for Pinterest. It's actually a little bit behind.
I know you've said on the show before that 2017 is the year of video and 2018's the year implementing video. I think Pinterest is maybe a little bit behind in that realm. So they have a specific video campaign though. I haven't personally found it to work very well for direct response ads. I think from a branding standpoint it works really well. I think there's some testing to be done in that space, and I think it will come to the point where we can use videos for DR really well on Pinterest as they continue. But I think right now, I haven't personally found that, that would. If there is somebody listening and they found great success, I'd love to hear what you guys are doing.
But so far traffic campaign I think is really where the bread and butter is for eCom clients and direct response advertising. And within that you have this ability to target in different ways. You have interest targeting, which Pinterest is really known for their interest graphs, so they know what you're interested in based on what you're pinning. And so it's really easy to get into some of those categories. And they have a wealth of them, so when you go in to start your traffic campaign, or one of the other campaigns you target interest, I encourage you to search. Because they'll have a list of boxes that you can check and you can go underneath, but actually they don't show you passed the second level of that hierarchy. So for instance, if you go in and you type in, "Face cream" you're actually gonna get a whole lot more interest than if you had just select the drop down.
So definitely search within the interest categories. And then secondly they have keywords, which is I think, one of the reasons people come to Pinterest to begin with because they wanna capture that intent of people on Pinterest. But one of the things I'd be really careful of ... And with all programmatic advertising, you really wanna split this out, because you can't do a really great job of breaking it out in the dashboard. So make sure if you're running an interest campaign, run interest first and get the performance, understand that, don't run that along with keywords and all these other things because it can be really difficult to determine the performance of those.
So running an interest campaign and then a keywords campaign, you have the option to place that in the search feed or the browse feed. Now this is super important because a lot of times people come to Pinterest they say, "I wanna get in people's search, I wanna get that intent," and so they select "Browse" and "Search" and they run a keywords campaign. But what we've found when we've looked at the data is that when you select both placements, only 10% of the pins will actually show up in the search results.
And I think part of this is Pinterest overall has a lower daily audience use than some of the other channels like "Search" obviously you can kinda see a whole list of ... You can see like giant search terms and that, but I think Pinterest is a little bit smaller. There's a lot more "Browse" placement so they end up sticking your pins there more often. So what I would highly suggest is making sure you split out "Search" and "Browse" placement. So when you're in the search, you're just getting that intent driven placement essentially when you're running search and all your money's being put behind "Search".
JD Prater: Yeah, definitely lower in the funnel's what you're saying there?
Vernon Johnson: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
JD Prater: Okay.
Vernon Johnson: And I would even test, run them separately, if you're gonna do keywords run "Browse" and then also run "Search" and get the performance difference there, because I think you're gonna see a difference in performance. Especially that way you can also control spend to search and you can increase that if it's performing really well or browse and vise versa.
JD Prater: Yeah, nice. And something with too ... And I think a lot of people may not realize is, Pinterest has a pixel as well. So they've got a website pixel, they have a conversion pixel, which allows you to kinda run even these app install campaigns because you can tie in some of these third parties. So talk to us about even running app install campaigns on Pinterest, which is one of those like, "Really? App install [crosstalk 00:18:01]?"
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. So touching on the pixel, they've actually even recently updated, so it's almost identical to Facebook pixel if you're familiar with that. They have the standard events, they have the base code. So, really easy to implement. They make it really easy, in fact I think it's a little bit easier than Facebook in terms of they just select the parameters, you can insert custom fields like value, quantity, things like that for ROAS on eCommerce clients. So it's very easy to install, highly suggest installing it.
The only bummer is that on Pinterest right now, you can't optimize towards the pixel event, you can see it's conversion value and things like that, but you can't actually optimize towards it. Then, when we're talking about the pixels, so overall you can get the data, when you're looking at the campaign level insights on the dashboard, which is great. And I my hope is that one day you'll be able to optimize towards that pixel a little bit better, and I'm sure that's coming. So that's exciting. But you are able to see all of the conversion values within the dashboard, which is great.
And then as you mentioned, mobile app install is a little bit of a weird topic on Pinterest. We've seen the ads and things like that but one of the neat things about mobile app install is you get a really big install button when you run this. And when we've tested this with mobile app clients, we've actually seen a lower cost per install and cost per registration than we have on Facebook.
And I think one of the reasons is, is that, this particular channel works really, really well if you have a really broad demographic. So if your app is fairly ubiquitous, I've found that Pinterest actually can perform much better than a lot of other channels. And so the reason is, is we're able to target keywords and interest categories separately. So one of the things we've done without mobile app clients is, is we've done broad key word packs, which are like 2000 plus keywords, so it's just showing up in a lot of places and also some narrow keyword packs. In the broad keyword packs, we'll have a really low CPI overall, we've found.
JD Prater: Yeah, so with the app install, you're talking about like these broader packs and are you saying that you guys are putting in like 2000 keywords like into an ad group or do you guys break those out into like ... Are those keywords bundled into different ad groups I guess?
Vernon Johnson: Well, no. We do if we have different types of broad keyword packs, we'll separate those. It's pretty general because when you get 2000 keyword packs, obviously that size will have a really broad targeting. So it might be workout related and have tons of stuff around there and then maybe more like home DIY type related. So those we've gotten really good help, if you have a Pinterest rep, they can give you really good access to keywords, otherwise talking with search ... And there's also Google Search keyword tools, keyword planners, so those type of things are really, really beneficial in this particular area, so finding those keywords and putting them in.
So generally speaking, we might split them out, but the purpose of the broad keyword match is just to get that mobile app campaign in a lot of different feeds. And what we've found is that it just works really well. Pinterest can really optimize towards that mobile app install, the people who are installing it, and we've just found really great success with that. One of the things I will note is that if you are running a mobile app install, you have to run with one of their mobile measurement partners, their MMPs. So this is Kochava, AppsFlyer, TUNE's, those type of thing. I think they have five total that you have to work with. So if you don't have an MMP, you definitely have to get one set up before you run on Pinterest.
JD Prater: Yes. And if you don't have one please just go get one.
Vernon Johnson: Just get one, yes. Get one anyways regardless of Pinterest, yeah.
JD Prater: Awesome. So kinda moving forward, one thing I wanted to quickly talk about, before we get into the really fun hacks is, green marketing. So one things that I've found with on Pinterest is, it actually lets you re-market to audiences and it's also another great way to probably also get started. Like we found, even like AdStage. AdStage is "B to B", it's advertisers, and when we kinda think through our audience, we've found that 30% of our audience was actually on Pinterest just by putting the pixel in place and then just building an audience. And we were like, "Wow. 30%. That's pretty good. That's not bad." It's not as good as Facebook but hey, it's not as big as Facebook so I wouldn't expect that.
But some really cool things that we found was, actually you can set up these really cool sequences. Because you can actually say, "If you've seen this pin, exclude this audience." You can kinda build these different types of audiences and kinda sequencing. Are you guys doing anything like that or have you guys seen success with re-marketing?
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. Remarketing is super powerful on Pinterest. And I'm so glad you brought it up because one of the key aspects of Pinterest is being able to re-market and we have a really low CPM on Pinterest. I think that's one of the things I'm most excited about right now, is it's in the early stages like Facebook was two to three years ago where the CPMs are just really low, we're talking two to five dollars compared to Facebook. So in general, it's low so re-marketing itself is that much lower when you're just running it.
And as you mentioned, running those sequences is great. Like I said, when they installed the new pixel, and we now have the ability to create all subsets of those audiences so you can have even on your site, if you wanna break it down by people who've been to specific pages, specific blog posts, taken specific action. So if you have a conversion event but you've put in a content type in the pixel, you can sequence those out. So there's a ton of things you can do with the Pinterest re-marketing pixel and then the audiences that you set up there and being able to track those.
One of the things too that I think is really powerful, especially on a platform like this where people are going there to purchase, is find out what your re-purchase rate is. Figure out what that is and when people are starting to repurchase and then put ads in there of people who've purchased that long ago, the 60 days ago or whatever that re-purchase rate is and start running ads for a couple weeks. Again, I think that's another really powerful tool that you can use Pinterest re-marketing with.
JD Prater: Nice little tip there. I like that one. That's a good one. It's one of those things where it really is ... We're unrolling all these tips and tricks and it's like I really hope everyone listening hopefully is gonna give it at least a second thought maybe.
Vernon Johnson: A fair shake. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JD Prater: Go in, test it out. So, let's get into some of these really cool hacky things that you have found. I'm not a big fan of the word hack, I'm gonna say, tips and tricks, unicorns, whatever it may be. So talk to us about your two favorite ones..
Vernon Johnson: Yeah, okay. I got a few nuggets for Pinterest that we've found that we really like. The first one is, is if you've ever gone into Pinterest and searched, you search shoes or pants or whatever, they're gonna give you a whole string of other search terms. You'll see there's like those funny colored boxes right underneath. Those are the long tail search terms. Those are great, especially when you're searching for something, you don't hit it spot on, there's other great options that you can search for. I've found it really helpful just in the personal use.
But one of the things you can actually pull into for instance, your search campaigns is you can pull all of the string of keywords that they've attached to that one. So for instance, when you put in "Budgeting" and you get a whole bunch of college budgeting, college planning, all of those subsequent keywords, you can actually pull ... And at 3Q we built a tool that pulls all of those. So you put in the search term and it pulls all of the long tail of those keywords and you can dump those right into a search campaign or even you can even pull those into a Pinterest campaign, obviously. Those can be really, really beneficial if you're looking to get those keyword packs.
And so that's just a little hack that you're able to pull because Pinterest already does the legwork of figuring out what other people have searched for when they put in that search term. And so it just is kinda capitalizing off of that benefit that they give us.
JD Prater: That's pretty cool. And you were saying too, that you can also ... And you're sharing those insights with your search team as well?
Vernon Johnson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yup. And you can pull this outside of having a Pinterest campaign. So anyone on search can pull it as well so I really strongly suggest people, if you're doing keywords on Pinterest, keyword targeting to do that as well. But yeah, sharing those insights I think is a really good tool. And this is just when you put in a search term and it shows you what other people have searched for. So very similar to a keyword tool but just Pinterest version and I think it's been really helpful.
JD Prater: Yeah nice.
Vernon Johnson: And the second hack, that's probably one of my favorites, is utilizing one-tap. So one of the things that makes or breaks a Pinterest campaign is click through rate. And generally speaking, you have to keep in mind that that click through rate on Pinterest is gonna be lower than other platforms, so we're talking a good click through rate is like .5 to one is really good. So when we're talking about click through rate, it's just a little bit different and that's because people are on Pinterest to save and plan and think about the future. So if they're really clicking through, the people who are clicking through are the ones who are ready to purchase right now but not everyone on the platform is, so you have to think about that.
So one-tap enables you, it crosses out that close up feature of a pin, so when you click through and it expands, one-tap essentially eliminates that, so when you click the button, the pin, the small pin, it takes you right to the link or the desired action. So one of the things is obviously, it'll take down conversion rate, because when somebody expands the pin, they might get a little bit more information and then they decide, "Oh, this is something that I really wanna purchase," and they would go through. So it will take down conversion rate but your click through rate, because click through rate is measured to that desired action, will actually go up.
So one of the things that we've found is when we start a campaign, we'll actually start it on one-tap. We'll start it on one-tap initially and when we get to a click through rate of .3 to .5 generally, I'll then go in and take it off. So we essentially bump up that click through rate for Pinterest's algorithm and then we pull it off so that we increase conversion rate and end up having the campaign spend throughout. Because that's one of the things you'll find is that if you run and click through rate is low, your campaign will just come to a dead halt, the spend will just completely stop. Because creative makes or breaks your campaigns on Pinterest so enabling that click through rate a little bit, especially on creative that you know is good can really help a campaign.
JD Prater: Nice. Man that's a really good one. I haven't really thought about that one. I really like that. Thanks for that tip. That one's a winner. Yeah. No, the only other thing that I got. Is just kinda thinking through the platform, for those listening too. Pinterest even themselves, don't really consider themselves social media. It really is like a almost private, almost intimate type of, you're saving to your board. You're not really interacting with other people per se. And so it really is all about you. It really is kind of your inspiration, your idea boards. And
I think that's something that we should consider within marketers is, even whenever we get people to save our pin, that's a really valuable thing, that's a really valuable action. And so whenever you're looking at measurement, think through that. Vernon mentioned, longer windows, look 90 day windows, look at your organic reach post. And one of my favorite new things they've launched is Lens. Have you played around with Lens at all?
Vernon Johnson: Yeah. It's super cool. And I can't wait to see what the future of Lens is. So as you mentioned, it's the ability to take a photo of something and then it'll bring up pins that look like that. So you like somebody's table, you're at their house eating dinner and snap a photo of it you can then visually search that specific style.
JD Prater: Yeah, my buddy had a tee shirt and I really liked it, it said, "Bikes, Coffee, Coffee, Coffee," And I was like, "Oh, that's a sweet shirt." I pulled out Lens, no joke, pulled out lens, snapped a photo, it was available. The person making it was on Pinterest and it was just like a quick product, boom, boom. I think I, maybe five clicks total and I had bought a shirt off of Pinterest using Lens. So, that's my ...
Vernon Johnson: You may have to send me a link to that shirt, I think. In cycling, which is fun.
JD Prater: Yeah, for sure. It was a really good one. I'll send you a pic of me wearing it and then you can use Lens to then do it. [crosstalk 00:29:30] There we go.
Vernon Johnson: [crosstalk 00:29:30] you.
JD Prater: Full circle. Full circle. Love it. All right man. Well, thanks again for coming on, sharing some amazing Pinterest ads, best practices. Getting in there for your creative, getting into analytics. You went into objectives, you went into the pixel. You went into setting it all up. So I think that was a fantastic overview. If there was anything that you could kinda leave the audience with, what would be your one thing for them to do?
Vernon Johnson: Honestly, with Pinterest it's just to get started. Try something. It's a testing platform, you gotta get in, you gotta try, you gotta get your hands dirty. Don't be nervous about it. Put a little bit of budget behind it and give it a fair shake. I think if you haven't tried Pinterest yet, I definitely think it's worth testing and I'm really excited to see where it's gonna go in the future as well as what you guys do with it. With that also, 3Q is actually releasing a Pinterest playbook. At the time of this recording it may or may not be out. It'll be in the show notes either way and so definitely check 3qdigital.com, the website. We have a full playbook, so if you've never run Pinterest ads, or you're just looking to kinda get in and update yourself, if you've run a little bit, this is gonna be really, really helpful. So it has tips on campaign structures, on ad types, on testing methodologies. So just, it's super thorough and it was a lot of fun to put together so definitely check that out. It will be there in the show notes or on 3Q Digital's website.
JD Prater: Yeah, definitely. As soon as that link is live, we will make sure that it is tagged in the show notes.
Vernon Johnson: Awesome.
JD Prater: All right. Well Vernon, thanks again man for coming on, sharing all your knowledge that you have gained while you've ... Advertising on Pinterest so thanks again.
Vernon Johnson: Thank you so much JD. It was super fun being here man.
JD Prater: All right. All right everyone, that's our show for this week. Again, that was Vernon Johnson from 3Q Digital talking about Pinterest ads. We'll see you next week.