Welcome to episode #80 of The PPC Show, where we interview the best and brightest in paid marketing. This week we're joined by Heather Cooan, Founder and Principal Growth Strategist at HDC Digital.
Heather is laser focused on revenue growth for clients and one way she accomplishes this with CRMs. If your B2B PPC campaigns are stuck or you're having issues scaling performance then this episode is for you. Stay tuned to hear Heather's advice for unlocking revenue growth through the power of CRMs.
Listen to the Episode
Heather is an entrepreneur, author, international speaker, & an ex-roller girl. She founded HDC Digital, a Phoenix-based digital & demand marketing agency revolutionizing the way companies think about and approach growth. Over her career, Heather has served in digital marketing roles both in-house and agency-side, spanning the full funnel, across many verticals, both lead generation, and eCommerce. Credits include The Smithsonian, UGG Australia, Teva, Google, PapaJohns, ISOTONER, Totes, ESET, PetSmart, Infusionsoft, and numerous others.
Transcript and Show Notes
JD: Hi there, welcome to The PPC show.
Heather: Thanks so much JD, it's nice to be here.
JD: Yeah, we got to meet up at SMX West for the first time ever. I've been a fan of yours, at least on the Twitter, as they say, but you've been around in the community for a while now. So, give us a quick update, what you're up to and where are you?
Heather: Yeah, so I have been around for a long time. Some folks on PPC chat and I like to joke around, we use the hashtag #ppcmoses, we've been around that long, since before you could advertise on Google, which is kinda crazy to think about.
I've been all over the place, so I did some time agency side, did some time in-house brand side, and recently just went out on my own, started a company called HDC digital, where we are doing a lot of digital and demand marketing. Kind of blending my experience and background, and we're focusing on growth. So really helping companies bottom line revenue, that's what we're doing, I'm doing now.
JD: Perfect. Well, yours was a can't miss session at SMX West so I asked if you would come on and rehash it out for all of our listeners that couldn't be there. For all those listening, be ready, get your pen and paper out, it's going to be really great. We're going to be talking about stuff like CRM's, and I'm sure marketers are already tuning out right now because like 'I do not want in a CRM', that is for sales, that's for the business op's side of things, but, let's jump into it. You really talk about framing this problem and so, what is this problem that you're seeing as we move into 2018 and beyond?
Framing the problem
Heather: Sure. This is something that I started to see when I was agency side, dealing with running paid campaigns for clients, where we would start to hit diminishing returns, and I couldn't figure out why we couldn't continue to grow. Then when I moved in-house did some work brand side with a couple of CRM companies actually, I realized it's because on the back end inside of the company there's a lot more going on than anybody realizes when they are just running the paid channels, or even the organic channels or the content or any of the individual pieces of marketing.
So, what I've noticed, and I continue to see it now with my clients, is that there tends to be a problem with anybody who really has an offline sales point. So anybody that has a sales fleet or has to talk to someone in order to get information, do demo and actually go through the sales process.
And so these companies start out, and they start out running bottom of funnel paid campaigns and they really lean on the paid channel. And it's gets them growing, it gets them started, it gets them a lot of traction, and then they start to hit diminishing returns and they can't figure out why. And, what I've found is that they're missing the entire back end. They don't have a funnel to find, they don't have a buyer or customer journey defined. They don't have any of their metrics defined. They haven't been tracking anything through a funnel to look at conversion rates in between metrics. They'll get funnel velocity to look at leaks and where things are falling apart, and often-times, sales and marketing are at odds and it's a little bit of a thunder dome battle, if you will, between sales and marketing. And, sometimes inside marketing of the company is large enough to have a separate content team from the demand-gen team.
And, so that's really what I've been running into, more and more, and so, we started to specialize in taking people through funnel taxonomy, getting things set up on the back end. Getting things measurable so they can actually see, and then providing alignment between sales and marketing so that they can work together, instead of working against each other.
JD: Yeah so a quick recap. We're really going to be focusing on B2B for this talk. So, with it, a lot of this information, if you have this problem, if you are having trouble scaling your paid campaigns. If you have some data silos and you're having some team alignment. Those are the main three things I picked up from that, and one thing I really loved about your presentation was like, break all those down, and let's get started and let's actually grow some revenue. If you got those problems, buckle up, because we're about to get into it and Heather's going to be helping us understand how to really frame this problem and how to get past it.
So, what do you think? What is the first thing we should start to do?
Define metrics across the funnel
Heather: Yeah. What did they say, when you have an alcoholism issue, first you have to realize you have a problem?
JD: That's right.
Heather: And what I find is that a lot of companies are way far beyond the problem before they realize they have it. Often-times we end up working with clients who are at a point where they have hit diminishing returns and have stalled in growth for so long that now the Board is starting to get grumpy, or the investors have started to get grumpy, and now they're in a panic mode, really trying to get it done. And, then they've got a lot of turnover, they're burning out their people because they can't get there.
So, realizing that you need to plant for the future and continue to progress and build forward, before you get there, is the biggest thing. So, realizing you have that problem. And, then once you realize that you have it, it's time to get all the stakeholders in a room and start defining your buyers journey, your customer journey and your funnel metrics.
What is a lead to you? Define what that means. Is a lead just someone who fills out any form? Is it someone that fills out a form that's just a piece of content or is it someone that subscribes to the blog posts? Or is it- what is it?
And then all the way down to the bottom. What does it mean when it gets passed off between marketing/sales? What does it mean when they've actually qualified in sales? And then the bottom part of the funnel, the actual sales process itself needs to be mapped out. And then once it gets handed off to customer success, or an implementation team, what does that look like? And then, beyond that, building the relationship all the way towards advocacy and then back around to create new acquisition on the top of the funnel.
So, mapping all that out, is step one after you've realized you've got this issue.
JD: Yeah. So, I have a problem. Now we've figured out- at least we've defined it, and so, to contrast that, you're saying within your own experience, what your seeing is, you're seeing a lot of paid teams running and getting maybe a bunch of downloads, which could be, let's say, a white paper download or attending a webinar, the common B2B "leads", and then, nothing right? No real follow up, they're not really growing anything they're just capturing this number.
JD: Perfect, okay.
Heather: Because they're getting squeezed so the paid teams and the demand-gen guys are getting squeezed because sales doesn't have enough leads. What sales is really saying is " we don't have enough people that are ready to talk to us". So, what marketing does is, they go get more leads, they just get more form completions. Sales can't really do anything there and that just causes sales more pain, costs the company more money, doesn't get to the root of the problem and doesn't produce more revenue.
JD: Yeah, and I think this is something that we can jump right into. I think a lot of us understand this too, because we might be measuring, and Google Analytics, for example, are online activity, and sales is over here in this offline activity, maybe a Salesforce, maybe a hotspot, right, that's our CRM's, and they're not really talking to each other. So, there's your data silos, there's your team alignment and now you're having some trouble scaling, so, how do we- what is the next step? So, we've framed it, we've figured out all of our definitions for our leads and our MQLs and SQLs, what now?
Getting all the technical requirements set up
Heather: Sure. So, once you've actually got definitions and these definitions need to have everybody in the room to come up with them. Marketing can not make definitions themselves. Sales can not make definitions themselves, and customer success needs to be involved as well. Everyone needs to be in the same room because it's one big long demand chain, or a revenue architecture across the entire funnel that's actually a circle if you think about it.
All those guys need to be in the room because they're going to have different perspectives and at the end of the day, what we're doing is we're aligning everyone around business metrics that ladder up to revenue, because sales marketing customer success together is team revenue. That's their job, they do it together. So, once you've got everything defined and you've got alignment, then you need to select your technology and get all of the things installed into the technology, the technical set up of all these things.
Usually involves things like getting lead scoring put together, getting all your criteria for lead scoring, getting your lead routing and lead management put together. Using automation, so based on lead scoring when are we going to route things to sales, what kind of things are going to trigger to send it to marketing. And then, is there going to be lead recycling? What criteria is going to bring something back from sales to marketing, and how long is it going to be there. What are all of the lead statuses that are going to trigger these things so that you can report off once it goes to sales, what's working, what's not working if it's not coming out the end as new units or customers or revenue.
So, getting all the technical set up is probably the next step.
JD: Yeah and I know that you've helped out quite a few businesses in getting this set up. What are some the main issues that you see with this, let's just break down lead scoring as an example. What are some of the road bumps that you see?
Heather: Sure. One of the biggest things is getting all of the right stakeholders in the room. I went through a Salesforce implementation with a client, and, Salesforce is wonderful, but you can't use a Salesforce if you don't know what you want when you set it up.
You have to have an architecture, it's that customizable. And, a lot of the things are out of the box are really just an example of what you can do, not a best practice, not a recommendation. And, this poor company, that was already in pain because they had gone too long on their old system, got Salesforce implemented and then when their sales team started using it, they realized 'oh gosh, we can't track things all the way through the funnel, we can't use this the way we want to use it', they accidentally had set it up exactly like their old system, which was duct taped in the first place. And, so, they found themselves in a place where they were rebuilding and re-architecting Salesforce on the fly.
So, really getting all of the right stakeholders in the rooms, with a higher up implementation partner if you need to, getting all of that defined and set and thinking through 'What do we need to measure, when we set this up? What kind of conversations are we going to have? Who are we going to be held accountable to? What metrics are we going to be held accountable to? What people and processes need to be accounted for? How's our sales team going to use this? What's going to disrupt them? What's going to take time out of their call time?'
All of those things need to be diligently thought through and if they're not, you will pay for it on the other end in terms of wasted time and money and resources.
So, that's the biggest thing. We will take months sometimes defining everything on that end, to make sure that everything is aligned correctly and we've run through scenarios of 'Okay, this is the kind of reporting you're going to end up if you set it up this way. Is this right?' before we build it in the system, that way it's done correctly the first time and they're not struggling operationally and making things worse. It's just it can cause a lot of additional pain if you're not careful.
So, that's the biggest thing, and it's scary.
Heather: I see a lot of executives that are wide eyed and intimidated. I'm like 'Oh crap, I have to basically stop the business to get this done'. No, you don't have to stop the business, but, yeah, it's a tough ball of worms to tackle.
JD: Yeah, it's like one of those things too, even putting in our perspective. So we've both running PPC campaigns, coming up through that. We spent so much time architecting our own campaigns of what does the flow look like? When are we going to re-market? What does that message look like? What does that ad look like? Is it on AdWords, or is it on RLSA? Is it on Facebook? It is- wherever it is, we spent all that time and yet, only to get that lead, and we don't really think about what happens next, and we're not really organizing that and structuring that piece of it, so[crosstalk 00:12:11]
Heather: And that's why it's so important to actually think through the entire lifecycle of your customer. So, we coach companies through persona development and lifecycle marketing. When we do this definitions of all the metrics and things, because we want to make sure that we're thinking through awareness. Not awareness of me and my product, but awareness of what the pain is that we actually serve, all the way through to advocacy on the other end, because you will find that there are things that need to be measured in between each of those stages of the buyer or customer lifecycle or journey. That they weren't even thinking about that would be helpful when we're actually putting the technical pieces together to produce reporting on the other end. And, a lot of that happens to be around content. We'll get into measuring channel attribution vs asset attribution, and that usually ends up being a war inside marketing.
Where do they come from? Well, I don't care where they came from, what did they consume? Well, I can't see and that can be tough.
JD: Yeah, It's also again, pointing out- I think it's why also it's so important to work with someone like you, who has had to do this several times, several different types of businesses, several different types of CRMs. So, again, we might outsource our PPC and we do that for a reason, right? Because they are experts and I think this is something like- I'm like hearing it and I was like 'Man, I would totally outsource this if we could do it again'.
Heather: Sure, yeah it's hard.[crosstalk 00:13:35]
And it can hurt, yeah.
JD: Even our own Salesforce instance, and I'm sure everyone listening would hear this and probably agree. It's not good, it's okay, but it's not perfect, right? And I wish we would have had a better structure in place whenever we were setting it up. But...
JD: ..Tis life.
Heather: Oh yeah. I'm sure I can hear people groaning in agreement. Yes
Heather: Because, everyone seems to have issues with their CRM in the way things are set up. And, difference CRMs have different limitations, but when you're dealing with Salesforce it's so customizable, it can always be adjusted and optimized on the fly. The people component is what's difficult, retraining sales, retraining marketing and then getting all of that data correctly put together.
JD: Yeah, definitely. So, let's talk about putting it all together. So, let's just say, We've defined everything, we've got our structure set up so, how do we go about gathering the data and then measuring it?
Measure and gather data sources
Heather: Sure. So once you've got all of your taxonomy defined, everybody's agreed on what we're going to be measuring, what we're going to be held accountable to. And then we've got the technical in place/installed. Lead scoring is set up, algorithms are tested and running, and the whole database is scored and you've got lead management and flow and routing all based off of those lead scores. Then, you turn it on, gather some data, see how things are going, fix all the bugs. Because there is always inevitably some things that break when you turn things on. And then, you've got that, usually sometimes it can take two to four weeks, sometimes six weeks depending on the culture of the organization, for sales to get the hang of things to be tagging things with the right statuses, using the right work flows, for the data to even out.
So you first things on, you got that people interference, and so they're still learning and they make some mistakes and so things end up in the wrong buckets. So, once that's done, then you've got your baseline data and you can start to define, or start to build all of your reports as the data is flowing in.
Now, I've seen this happen, the biggest mistake is people wait until they've got the data to figure out how they're going to report on the data. Report definitions and architecture need to happen when you're defining all of your taxonomy up front. So, that's where the whole thinking through 'what is it that we need to measure? What do we need to report on? How do we want to see it?' All that needs to be thought through, prior to even building anything.
That way when you have the data come through, you've got all your baseline, you can see where things are broken, you can fix them, but then you can just turn on your dashboard reports, and then it's really a matter of 'Is this what we thought we needed? Or, is this- did something change? Did we find something different that we didn't realize was there, when we started turning it on and look at what we're actually reporting on'. The insights that are coming out. And, you'll find some mistakes. I've seen companies turn on Salesforce for the first time, brand new implementation, and they realize 'Oh shoot, we didn't string a unique identifier through the entire funnel', so now we can see stuff on the incoming side through marketing, but when it comes down to sales we can't see it. Or, we can see it on the revenue producing side but we can't measure it/tie it back to the marketing side.
So, those things happen. Ironing out and getting your dashboards put together.
JD: It's always a tough one, and it's so tricky too because even building out our own dashboards for the marketing team and the sales team using Salesforce, we do this all the time. But, you're constantly wanting to change them, because you want to see something different and again, it just reminds me of agency side, when you have those kick off meetings, it's like 'So, what are your business- what do you want to see?' All these questions, we're so accustomed to doing this and yet we're not doing it and they're not implementing it. I'm hearing you say this and I'm going 'Yeah, right?'
Reporting and dashboards with CRM
Heather: Oh shoot. Yeah, and when it comes to reporting and putting together dashboards, because there are usually a handful of folks who need very flexible dash boarding and reporting, this is where tools like Tableau come in handy. Where you would have some folks who are practitioners and trained in Tableau, so they have an instance on their desktop where they can actually build the reports and mess around with the data, accessing the tables directly. And then you've got folks who, can just do server side access like the execs and those guys who they have predefined reports that really don't change that they can jump in, at a glance reports.
So, think about these when you're defining your metrics and your reporting. Who is going to need what? Are some people going to be able to use a Salesforce dashboard and that's fine? Or, are some people usually, the guys that are nitty gritty, nuts and bolts in the marketing channels, or the sales enablement guys, they might need something like direct access to Tableau so they can build their customized reports on the fly to get even deeper insights.
What you want to do is, in the definition phase you want to get everybody aligned to business metrics, but then you want to also account for channel metrics. So PPC guys have all of their Google Analytics, and they have their tools in AdWords and Bing and Facebook, and then you've got social stuff, you got the organic stuff. Every single marketing channel is going to have their own levers that they pull on day to day, but then sales and marketing and everyone, customer success need to be aligned across the business metrics, which is where the funnel stuff comes from and that's where your CRM becomes your heart of the reporting, your one source of truth.
JD: What are some common problems that you've seen whenever your people are trying to set these up? So, you mentioned one I thought was really good, their unique identifier. Any other ones that you would call out?
Heather: The unique identifier is usually the biggest one. The other thing is sometimes lead statuses are not defined correctly, and that comes into play when things are handed off from marketing to sales. And, if you didn't think through granular enough or sometimes too granular on the lead statuses that's when leads are dis-positioned.
So, when a sales rep is reaching out and figuring out is this someone that should be talked? Is this someone that came through too early? Maybe the lead scoring accidentally sent it over. You'll need to have those defined and implemented in a way that they give marketing enough information so they can adjust their channels, but they don't take up so much time from the sales team that the sales is just picking the first one in the pick list and moving on, and they're not ending up in the right bucket.
So, often times when we go through definition engagements to get everything mapped out, we find that marketing wants so granular. They want to know the favorite color of these people and that's why they didn't close, but sales is like 'Man, I only have so much time to get this person figured out on the phone and I have got to Jam through all my quota, make my calls, make my talk time', and so, figuring that out at first is a big, big deal, because I've seen sales teams get overloaded, screw up the data because there's too many options. And I've seen, marketing be locked out and they're totally blind because there's too few options and the buckets are too broad.
So, lead status or disposition tends to be a big one. And then, everybody seems to get stuck in the lead recycling conversation, 'When should we send someone back through to marketing? And does that change the metric?' So, if someone gets all the way down to sales and maybe there an opportunity, but then they don't close for some reason and we want to send them back through to nurture over to marketing, do they stay in op? Do they move up the funnel? What do they do? How do we define this and where does it go, and then how do we keep that reporting separately so that those are not mucking up their reporting.
So you want total opportunities in the pipeline, but if there is some in there that haven't closed and they're not ready and they're in nurture, how do we account for those and how do we get them out of the reporting so they're not active pipeline.
JD: Got you. So, let's just say, we whipped through all this stuff right, we defined it, we set it up, we're measuring, reporting, and we go back to this beginning question, of framing the problem. We're talking about scaling our paid campaigns, so how do we take this information now and use it to now scale campaigns?
Scaling paid marketing campaigns
Heather: Yeah. So, one of the biggest things that actually the bulk of my presentation at SMX was about campaign tracking. Inside the CRM there's something called campaign tracking and most people don't even realize it's there, and once you set it up to measure what's coming through the entire funnel, and all the channels that are involved, all of the content assets that are involved, everything that's rolled up in a single campaign that's producing revenue. Then you start to unlock what's happening post lead acquisition.
So, after the form completion, not just how many of them went to sales and moved to the next level of the funnel, but how many went to sales and moved to the next funnel and came from paid versus organic and consumed these two E-books and this one blog post. So you start to get more granular information. Once you've got campaign tracking set up and you've got your lead source tracking set up inside Salesforce, correctly so that you've got granular enough, but not too granular, then you've got all of the pieces to then make optimizations on the top end in the channel from that back end data.
So, we might realize or find out that a lot of our revenue is actually coming from trade shows, and so that might inform the paid marketing team 'Oh, I didn't realize that our enterprise business line, that's all the revenues coming from trade shows'. Maybe we're going to carve out some of our paid media budget to drive foot traffic to the booths, instead of just driving to demo, because that particular persona, they built more trust in person and so those trade shows are making big difference.
So, it's really about gathering that information on the back end and then recycling it back through to your PPC vendor or, team, to start implementing. It does change or inform the strategy.
JD: Nice. I like that one. Another question that I had too is, a lot of marketing teams are, I think, still held to lead, right?
JD: And I see this changing left and right for years now, really with this new ABM models, specifically for B2B, that we're talking about, but, how do you get marketing teams to really start thinking around revenue, or lower pipeline contribution at least?
Marketing teams moving to pipeline contribution
Heather: Sure, yeah this is a hard one. Especially when it comes to folks who are in more of the traditionally top of funnel channels. Folks in social media, especially in organic social, content, even sometimes the SEO guys that are dealing with 'How do I get traffic and content ranked? How does that even contribute to revenue?'
In my experience, the visibility is really what helps them understand. Once you get everybody aligned to the business metrics and then roll out 'Okay this is the business metric', We're looking at marketing qualified leads. That's the number of leads that have been bedded by marketing that are ready to go to sales, to see if they can be developed into a qualified lead that sales can really work with.
So, if that's what we're looking at, we're driving there, then that kind of aligns everybody to a point where marketing doesn't feel like they are responsible for revenue 100% because there's so much out of their control when they pass it off. But, they feel comfortable in getting into the funnel instead of at the very, very top where they're just talking about subscribers or leads, or getting into a place where, okay, these are qualified, we can hand these off, we can confidently say that we think these guys ar educated and warm enough, that you guys can have a conversation.
Being able to measure that, and define that, and then get the two teams to agree 'Okay, sales, yes, that definition of an MQL suits our fancy, that's what we're going to accept, we can deal with that', and marketing says 'Yeah, okay, we can produce X number of those types of leads for you on a regular basis given the toolkit and the budget that we have', then everybody gets aligned.
Then on the marketing side, you have to roll up their daily, KPIs that they're using in their individual channels, and show them how they roll up to those business metrics. So, if revenue plan breaks down to X number of MQLs each month, then PPC needs to know that that breaks down to X number of leads because we now know the conversion rate between lead and MQL.
And so, once you finally unlock all of that data on the back end, people can see the trail, they can see straight through between how my channel and my work directly contributes to revenue. And that's where people seem to get really excited and really empowered, and you start to have different fights between sales and marketing, and they're better more progressive fights, and I think a little bit of friction always moves the business forward.
And, the change, it's amazing to watch this happen, to pointing fingers at each other and now they're analyzing the data together and you'll see marketing people go over to the sales floor and sit with some reps they've made friends with and say 'Okay so I see all of these guys are sitting in this latest position of non-responsive, so, why? Why are they not answering the phone? Is it the season? Why do we think they're not answering the phone?'
Such a more productive conversation between sales and marketing, and that actually starts to move things forward and you find little pockets of opportunity that you can optimize to, and it really opens up new opportunity. It's awesome.
JD: Yeah, 100% agree with that. We've made a huge shift, probably the last nine months we have our team is "shmarketing" we have our slack channel where we're talking to each other and, we're really having much more informed and engaged conversations now. Even before this call, a meeting with our sales guys, I was like 'Oh hey guys, what if we, marketing, automated this with a video message, showing people how to do this and do that? You think that'll work?' And they're like 'Yes, yes, touchdown'. I don't have to do it, it's automated, it's coming from you so it's not from us. You're going to do the work and you're going to use video. They're like 'Yes, thumbs up, you can do that'. I'm like 'Alright, cool, I'll take care of it'. It's a much better conversation.
Heather: That's awesome, that's so awesome that you guys are doing that. Because that's where you evolve to once you've got all this back end stuff put together, is now you're brain storming strategies together instead of siloed and now you're starting to work in a place that's more holistic. And that's wonderful.
JD: Yeah, I think it couldn't have been done until like, what you said. It really has to come around deeper funnel metrics, I don't think you're going to get there is you're still looking at leads and still only looking at that number. You really have to come down to where sales is, meet them half way, whether that's contribution of- whatever it is, right, I still say, get all of your tracking in place so you do know what's working so you can say 'You know what? Maybe I do need to shift paid budget'. You need to be big enough to say' I'm willing to give up budget, shift it over here to events, because it's going to drive more revenue'.
Heather: That's right, team revenue. Everybody is about driving more revenue. And you'll find, if you do that, the more revenue you produce, the more customers you produce and at least in a SAAS or a B2B or anything that is customer service focused, in terms of products, those customers are then going to your biggest driver of acquisition later on down the road as you continue to scale and grow.
What is it like 80% of your revenue should be coming from your installed base or is this 20% new acquisitions? And so, you're really building for the future. But if everybody is on that same page, it just is such a more harmonious and frankly, cool place to work. You get to do all of these cool advanced awesome things, that you couldn't do before because you weren't enabled because you didn't have the data.
You're probably enabling your sales guys, walking him through 'so this kid of lead that's marked with this came through this channel, and they saw this and they read that', and they're like 'Oh cool, now I know what kind of talk track to apply to this conversation when I get on the phone with these guys'. It's a much more productive conversation for the customer, and then that leads to revenue. Because all of this is omni and it's all based around customer experience when it really comes down to it.
JD: Yeah, and I mean another way that I also think though it is, it's a much bigger team now, right? So it's no longer just marketing, I get the sales team so it's like 'Look, our team just doubled/tripled in size, and now look how big and how more powerful we can be?'
And so, if you guys are still not there, I would really encourage you for 2018 and really get out of this stuck, or maybe you're really looking to scale, take a listen to this podcast obviously. It's actually funny, this is actually going to be pretty close to what my topic is for Hero Conf.
Heather: Oh Awesome.
JD: ...coming up in a couple of weeks. It's going to be increasing PPC campaign effectiveness through pipeline contribution.
Heather: That's awesome.
JD: So it's really measuring the deeper funnel metrics to really improve what you're currently doing. So, you teed it up perfectly, I didn't even see it going there, but I'm glad that it did, but, anything else? What else are we missing here? What else- you know, pitfalls?
Common pitfalls to watch out for
Heather: Well, there's one more thing, that sometimes people in this whole denial thing right, you've got to realize you've got a problem in order to fix it? Sometimes I'll run into companies that are measuring leads at the very top, and they're measuring customers at the very bottom, and they've got a conversion rate of lead to customer and they think they're fine. What they don't realize is that there are so many additional levels and conversion rates in between those two things that they're missing out on, and there's a ton of opportunity that's likely being left on the table because they can't see those things. So, that can also be an impediment to folks progressing forward and getting this stuff built, and that's where- usually if they're in that kind of mindset I think 'Okay, well in a year, here's my card, let me know if you get stuck', because that's usually what happens.
So if you're in that mindset where we're measuring the top or we're measuring the bottom, we've got a conversion and we're just rolling, be mindful, you might be coming up on some issues pretty quickly.
JD: So for those listening who might be stuck, and they're interested in getting a hold of you, what's the best way to get in touch with you?
Heather: Sure. I'm available all over the internet, Heather Cooan, I'm on twitter, I'm on linked in, I'm all over the place. You can always e-mail email@example.com, and then, we're doing some blog posts and we're doing some podcasts and videos and all kinds of stuff trying to help out in terms of providing education and awareness around this stuff, because, as long as this has been going on it's just not something that everybody is aware of.
So, yeah, so I'm all over the place.
JD: Yeah, and Cooan too, COOAN.
Heather: Yes, Jewish pronunciation, but too many vowels, it trips people up. OOAN.
JD: Yeah, so Cohan Brothers but COOAN, yeah I like it. Any other conferences you got coming up?
Heather: I'm going to be at SLC SEMs digital conference in August, where I will be speaking about how to bust through the ceilings of PPC using marketing automation. So, I'll actually be talking about how to put together and nurture sequences and apply treatment to leads after they've been captured from content, because that seems to be the black box that you mentioned earlier. Marketers are getting all of these leads and they're killing it, right? But sales can't do anything with these leads because they're not ready, so how do we bridge that gap?
So, that's probably the next one. I think that's it, I've got scheduled right now.
JD: Alright, and to wrap it up and finish, what advice would you give marketers starting to venture into CRM world?
What advice would you give marketers starting to venture into CRM world
Heather: Sure. The best place I learned a lot of this stuff, is I went and I hung out with all of the systems and ops people. So, marketing operations guys, sales enablement guys, they're my people, they're my friends. So, if you're a marketer, it would really behoove you to understand a little bit about how these technologies work, and about the limitations of these technologies.
So, go sit with your MOPs folks and your sales enablement folks and learn a little bit of the tech. Geek out with them, and just kind of learn about what they do, and what they struggle with. They're in the heart of the ricochet between sales and marketing, and they usually have a really good insight in terms of what's going on and where the blind spots are. And they actually, usually have really surprising ideas about strategies that you never would have thought about, so, They're a really, really great resource. That's where I would start learning if you have access to those guys.
Other really great resources, Demandgen.com has a really good blog. Siriusdecisions has really good blog. Those are probably the two best, and then the MarTech conference is really great if you want to get into a lot of B2B and CRM and marketing automation and all of these tech stacks and things.
JD: Perfect. Well fantastic resources and if you're going to be a MarTech, let me know, we'll be there. We're going to be standing in a booth so please come by, hang out with me because I don't want to just stand there by myself. So, come by, say hello, and I'll really appreciate it.
So Heather, thank you so much for coming on, talking to us about how to get unstuck, really getting into that back end data. I really appreciate all your knowledge, skills. Welcome back from the community to you! We really appreciate you coming back in. So, that's all I've got, anything else?
Heather: I don't think so, thanks so much for having me, this was a blast.
JD: Alright, well, thanks again everyone for listening to the PPC show. That wraps up this episode. We'll see you guys next week.